<p>Earlier this year a Border Patrol officer was killed in a shoot-out with people who have been described as members of a trans vegan AI death cult. But who are the Zizians, really? Robert sits down with David Gborie to trace their development, from part of the Bay Area Rationalist subculture to killers.</p> <p>(4 Part series)</p> <p>Sources: </p> <ol> <li><a href="https://medium.com/@sefashapiro/a-community-warning-about-ziz-76c100180509" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?q=https://medium.com/@sefashapiro/a-community-warning-about-ziz-76c100180509&source=gmail&ust=1741736483316000&usg=AOvVaw2BBLeWD-Q9faG8ZGm9dXQx">https://medium.com/@sefashapiro/a-community-warning-about-ziz-76c100180509</a></li> <li><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20230201130318/https:/sinceriously.fyi/rationalist-fleet/" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?q=https://web.archive.org/web/20230201130318/https:/sinceriously.fyi/rationalist-fleet/&source=gmail&ust=1741736483316000&usg=AOvVaw0wzJA5-rK-S32KpYNr9Jyv">https://web.archive.org/web/20230201130318/https://sinceriously.fyi/rationalist-fleet/</a></li> <li><a href="https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/infohazard" 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data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?q=https://web.archive.org/web/20230201130318/https:/sinceriously.fyi/rationalist-fleet/&source=gmail&ust=1741736483316000&usg=AOvVaw0wzJA5-rK-S32KpYNr9Jyv">https://web.archive.org/web/20230201130318/https://sinceriously.fyi/rationalist-fleet/</a></li> <li><a href="https://x.com/orellanin?s=21&t=F-n6cTZFsKgvr1yQ7oHXRg" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?q=https://x.com/orellanin?s%3D21%26t%3DF-n6cTZFsKgvr1yQ7oHXRg&source=gmail&ust=1741736483316000&usg=AOvVaw3Xteu3Mngt21YJrLKTin-p">https://x.com/orellanin?s=21&t=F-n6cTZFsKgvr1yQ7oHXRg</a></li> <li><a href="https://zizians.info/" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?q=https://zizians.info/&source=gmail&ust=1741736483316000&usg=AOvVaw3qUsR9w5Qh2_uikuEkoxpk">https://zizians.info/</a></li> <li><a href="https://www.bostonglobe.com/2025/02/11/metro/6-violent-deaths-tied-to-radical-vegan-cult-based-in-california/" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.bostonglobe.com/2025/02/11/metro/6-violent-deaths-tied-to-radical-vegan-cult-based-in-california/&source=gmail&ust=1741736483316000&usg=AOvVaw2J97h9PjhQyFzNzVanJ9wu">according to <em>The Boston Globe</em></a></li> <li><a href="https://www.the-independent.com/news/world/americas/crime/zizian-murders-david-maland-curtis-lind-b2701101.html" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.the-independent.com/news/world/americas/crime/zizian-murders-david-maland-curtis-lind-b2701101.html&source=gmail&ust=1741736483316000&usg=AOvVaw3C-13-qmzyQNc6isHOH7w_">Inside the ‘Zizians’: How a cultish crew of radical vegans became linked to killings across the United States | The Independent</a></li> <li><a href="https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/ziz-silicon-valley-rationalist-deaths-1235278765/" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/ziz-silicon-valley-rationalist-deaths-1235278765/&source=gmail&ust=1741736483316000&usg=AOvVaw15FC713rVi6CftwVJb5gJf">Silicon Valley ‘Rationalists’ Linked to 6 Deaths</a></li> <li><a href="https://archive.is/4HAtn" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?q=https://archive.is/4HAtn&source=gmail&ust=1741736483316000&usg=AOvVaw2QLO7uQ5kFxYsPo4Wyx7kk">The Delirious, Violent, Impossible True Story of the Zizians | WIRED</a></li> <li><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20230201130336/https:/sinceriously.fyi/good-group-and-paseks-doom/" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?q=https://web.archive.org/web/20230201130336/https:/sinceriously.fyi/good-group-and-paseks-doom/&source=gmail&ust=1741736483316000&usg=AOvVaw3HqIKQRWaaEIRzSEQpMQNR">Good Group and Pasek’s Doom – Sinceriously</a></li> <li><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20230201130302/https:/sinceriously.fyi/glossary/#zentraidon" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?q=https://web.archive.org/web/20230201130302/https:/sinceriously.fyi/glossary/%23zentraidon&source=gmail&ust=1741736483316000&usg=AOvVaw3cfQuZmPi5XnsqbcPoVxS5">Glossary – Sinceriously</a></li> <li><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20230201130331/https:/sinceriously.fyi/mana/" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?q=https://web.archive.org/web/20230201130331/https:/sinceriously.fyi/mana/&source=gmail&ust=1741736483316000&usg=AOvVaw2fNILZbXcatgFr9IfTFfPF"><strong>Mana – Sinceriously</strong></a></li> <li><a href="https://archive.is/xhV0S" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?q=https://archive.is/xhV0S&source=gmail&ust=1741736483316000&usg=AOvVaw08NyLo3WrLCXnnMA5i5ekL">Effective Altruism’s Problems Go Beyond Sam Bankman-Fried - Bloomberg</a></li> <li><a href="https://docs.google.com/document/d/1RpAvd5TO5eMhJrdr2kz43dxT3nNm0XtuPcaW9kBIZL8/edit?tab=t.0" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?q=https://docs.google.com/document/d/1RpAvd5TO5eMhJrdr2kz43dxT3nNm0XtuPcaW9kBIZL8/edit?tab%3Dt.0&source=gmail&ust=1741736483316000&usg=AOvVaw1DnUxf81Z_EiB_l9bX25c1">The Zizian Facts - Google Docs</a></li> <li><a href="https://www.greaterwrong.com/posts/LLQYp53vop5BuyKBF/several-free-cfar-summer-programs-on-rationality-and-ai" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.greaterwrong.com/posts/LLQYp53vop5BuyKBF/several-free-cfar-summer-programs-on-rationality-and-ai&source=gmail&ust=1741736483316000&usg=AOvVaw1hA8VkmKQr3F3xcyXmzE16">Several free CFAR summer programs on rationality and AI safety - LessWrong 2.0 viewer</a></li> <li><a href="https://www.vox.com/2014/4/23/5643418/this-guy-thinks-killing-video-game-characters-is-immoral" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.vox.com/2014/4/23/5643418/this-guy-thinks-killing-video-game-characters-is-immoral&source=gmail&ust=1741736483316000&usg=AOvVaw1PaoUoZVOAPQuXJh58nCmL">This guy thinks killing video game characters is immoral | Vox</a></li> <li><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20230128221733/https:/equilibriabook.com/" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?q=https://web.archive.org/web/20230128221733/https:/equilibriabook.com/&source=gmail&ust=1741736483316000&usg=AOvVaw231NkYk-97GmE3Bl4F_kFw"><strong>Inadequate Equilibria: Where and How Civilizations Get Stuck</strong></a></li> <li><a href="https://www.greaterwrong.com/posts/gR6H3egpRPNYnoTrA/on-terminal-goals-and-virtue-ethics/comment/mZTPvwcA3DEDCcC7w" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.greaterwrong.com/posts/gR6H3egpRPNYnoTrA/on-terminal-goals-and-virtue-ethics/comment/mZTPvwcA3DEDCcC7w&source=gmail&ust=1741736483316000&usg=AOvVaw1zXSHyGlz27Cf4gAS0WYBX"><strong>Eliezer Yudkowsky comments on On Terminal Goals and Virtue Ethics - LessWrong 2.0 viewer</strong></a><strong> </strong></li> <li><a href="https://archive.is/xhV0S" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?q=https://archive.is/xhV0S&source=gmail&ust=1741736483316000&usg=AOvVaw08NyLo3WrLCXnnMA5i5ekL"><strong>Effective Altruism’s Problems Go Beyond Sam Bankman-Fried - Bloomberg</strong></a></li> <li><a href="https://squirrelinhell.blogspot.com/2017/12/happiness-is-chore.html#more" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?q=https://squirrelinhell.blogspot.com/2017/12/happiness-is-chore.html%23more&source=gmail&ust=1741736483316000&usg=AOvVaw0Jv0XPQjB_j0Xiibf7rYLf"><strong>SquirrelInHell: Happiness Is a Chore</strong></a></li> <li><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20220217023845/https:/www.plumofdiscord.com/post/675855867193769984/i-became-a-full-time-internet-pest-and-may-not" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?q=https://web.archive.org/web/20220217023845/https:/www.plumofdiscord.com/post/675855867193769984/i-became-a-full-time-internet-pest-and-may-not&source=gmail&ust=1741736483316000&usg=AOvVaw2GnpZqu77CBpVC8WcUkRm-"><strong>PLUM OF DISCORD — I Became a Full-time Internet Pest and May Not...</strong></a></li> <li><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20211009234142/https:/sinceriously.fyi/roko-harassment-of-plumofdiscord-composited/#comment-4671" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?q=https://web.archive.org/web/20211009234142/https:/sinceriously.fyi/roko-harassment-of-plumofdiscord-composited/%23comment-4671&source=gmail&ust=1741736483316000&usg=AOvVaw2Fe2VocdZ73C-z131NOqEZ"><strong>Roko Harassment of PlumOfDiscord Composited – Sinceriously</strong></a></li> <li><a href="https://archive.is/czxD3" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?q=https://archive.is/czxD3&source=gmail&ust=1741736483316000&usg=AOvVaw1Iai8DoRNxNyezowghTD9A"><strong>Intersex Brains And Conceptual Warfare – Sinceriously</strong></a></li> <li><a href="https://sinceriously.blog-mirror.com/infohazardous-glossary#debucketing" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?q=https://sinceriously.blog-mirror.com/infohazardous-glossary%23debucketing&source=gmail&ust=1741736483316000&usg=AOvVaw0DdBDKMxRb0Derkm_vrUxO"><strong>Infohazardous Glossary – Sinceriously</strong></a></li> <li><a href="https://drive.google.com/file/d/1MFJli_QLM75fF4yUGtllNJ-z76FeHZ7x/view" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?q=https://drive.google.com/file/d/1MFJli_QLM75fF4yUGtllNJ-z76FeHZ7x/view&source=gmail&ust=1741736483316000&usg=AOvVaw0QVqj2REeNPq5SJneA0fJN"><strong>SquirrelInHell-Decision-Theory-and-Suicide.pdf - Google Drive</strong></a></li> <li><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20230202013352/https:/sinceriously.fyi/the-matrix-is-a-system/" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?q=https://web.archive.org/web/20230202013352/https:/sinceriously.fyi/the-matrix-is-a-system/&source=gmail&ust=1741736483317000&usg=AOvVaw0W-Ce7akEreKVSRONA85v7"><strong>The Matrix is a System – Sinceriously</strong></a></li> <li><a href="https://archive.ph/h7j3v" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?q=https://archive.ph/h7j3v&source=gmail&ust=1741736483317000&usg=AOvVaw0nH7iXSdhnkHBG3KjHAQ0S">A community alert about Ziz. Police investigations, violence, and… | by SefaShapiro | Medium</a></li> <li><a href="https://archive.ph/iOmFI" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?q=https://archive.ph/iOmFI&source=gmail&ust=1741736483317000&usg=AOvVaw3iZmNkYq_MgQdgKu3ctrAC">Intersex Brains And Conceptual Warfare – Sinceriously</a></li> <li><a href="https://medium.com/@sefashapiro/a-community-warning-about-ziz-76c100180509" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?q=https://medium.com/@sefashapiro/a-community-warning-about-ziz-76c100180509&source=gmail&ust=1741736483317000&usg=AOvVaw3WZ4BwtZQuZzvYk4lER6t1">A community alert about Ziz. Police investigations, violence, and… | by SefaShapiro | Medium</a></li> <li><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20220521125057/https:/www.plumofdiscord.com/tagged/cw-abuse" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?q=https://web.archive.org/web/20220521125057/https:/www.plumofdiscord.com/tagged/cw-abuse&source=gmail&ust=1741736483317000&usg=AOvVaw0QyClJC_iYr4jNBYQW2h9H">PLUM OF DISCORD (Posts tagged cw-abuse)</a></li> <li><a href="https://archive.ph/mHiKh" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?q=https://archive.ph/mHiKh&source=gmail&ust=1741736483317000&usg=AOvVaw2Ki7trUnLZ9gT2XXzjfp95">Timeline: Violence surrounding the Zizians leading to Border Patrol agent shooting</a></li> </ol><p>See <a href="https://omnystudio.com/listener">omnystudio.com/listener</a> for privacy information.</p>